forum.group44.de

HELLO everyone!
I am writing in the English forum because as some of you know my German is not that prefect...so please have patience with me on that one.

OK I am here to announce something, over the last 1.5 years I have been working on several brake improvements projects for the Audi typ44 and C4 cars..one of the projects I just finished ( new rear quattro calipers) and now I have something even more interesting.

I have now been able to complete a project which consists of a brake caliper (HP2) or the same that is used on the S4 or S6 plus in this case, but nddesigned and built to fit the type 44 cars...YES!! Please read this ALL VERY CAREFULLY...and look at the picture below.

What I have done is created an HP2 caliper which fits DIRECTLY on the strut suspension for the type44 cars....also some other cars like Audi 80 and 90 ...but anyway we stay with the subject here.

On the original design I used a 314mm disk from the S4 ...the latest one uses a massive 323mm disk...what you see in the picture.

Please people ...every time I post I think there are people which think I am making jokes or something...the ones which know what I can do ...know this is no joke...the rear caliper I have just recently done should be good enough to prove what I am doing.
So please no silly jokes, on this I need to know before I go and spend alot of money making these things if there are people interested in something like this out there?

Details:
-HP2 caliper from S6 plus:
-323 mm brake disk (specific for typ44 cars based on the Audi allroad)
-no modifications needed to the strut tower
-minimum 16" wheels have to be used!!
-no hoses need to change...and YES of course I checked this.
-you might need at least a 5 -10 mm wheel spacer on the wheels...depends on the wheels you have
on the cars I have I am using Audi 16" BBS with a 10mm spacer each side.

Price for such a kit is around 300-400 euros...I am still working on the details for this.

Please give me some feedback people.

Looks nice, but it has to check out..you know how complex the german car registration system is.

Hello Paul,
very nice. The price, even when estimated right now, seems to be very good. Compare if you need new "Ufo's" for the 20V.

By the way, does this kit fit also for the 20V with the 3B-Motor? When our German TÜV agrees to this modification, you'll have some customers more.
When my Ufo's are done, I would go to change to your HP2-system if it fits as soon as possible.

Audi_44Q hat geschrieben:Hello Paul,
very nice. The price, even when estimated right now, seems to be very good. Compare if you need new "Ufo's" for the 20V.

By the way, does this kit fit also for the 20V with the 3B-Motor? When our German TÜV agrees to this modification, you'll have some customers more.
When my Ufo's are done, I would go to change to your HP2-system if it fits as soon as possible.

Hello Heinz-Walter,

right now I have developed this one for adapt to the following cars first:
-100 with 5 hole hub
-200 10V with 5 hole hub
-100 C4 (4 / 5 / 6 cylinder)

Then the next plan is:
-100 with 4 hole hub
-80/90 with 4 hole hub

OR...
-200 20v and V8

I first need to offer one before I can do the other, important to note is I have already a design solution for all these and several other models....just I have to start with something....I choose the 100 and 200 because very simply ...there are allot more then 20020v for example.

Paul,


the 10V allready comes with a quite acceptabe front brake (G60).

The UFO (20V and V8) doesen't


Best Regards,
Axel

turbaxel hat geschrieben:Paul,


the 10V allready comes with a quite acceptabe front brake (G60).

The UFO (20V and V8) doesen't


Best Regards,
Axel

Ok good feedback...BUT...the HP2 is compatible with the UFO or close to the perfermance...PLUS allot cheaper...
Also the 20020v and the V8 production numbers are allot lower then the production of the for example the 100 and 200.
ONE more..the G60 brakes were an option it appears...because on my 100 sport I have the regular g54 front calipers....which are OK but have no chance againes the HP2.
The final point...these Hp2 would offer the possiblity of an upgarde for around the same cost as G60's

I sure could use more comments or feedback however.

wel hello Paul.
this looks like a great upgrade, and in Holland it wile be no problem to fix it on a type 44.
as long as it wile fit it will be allowed (allowed if the brake preformance is equal or better to the original )

for this reason i will place it also on the dutch (audi) forum.

viermaal hat geschrieben:wel hello Paul.
this looks like a great upgrade, and in Holland it wile be no problem to fix it on a type 44.
as long as it wile fit it will be allowed (allowed if the brake preformance is equal or better to the original )

for this reason i will place it also on the dutch (audi) forum.

HEY thanks...now that is feedback!!!

Yes for sure ...better then the orginal G54 or G60 and close is not the same as the UFO but without the issues involved with UFOS...Plus ...not sure is anyone has noticed this disk is also about the same size as the RS2 ...(RS2 = 322 X 32 disk) ..(HP2 323 x 30 DISK)

Maybe I just don't like the UFO, but it's a really dissapointing brake. Even if technically in perfect condition...

PS.: My Turbo Sport Avant had the same small Grilings. I havent heard about another, 'till, however.

turbaxel hat geschrieben:Maybe I just don't like the UFO, but it's a really dissapointing brake. Even if technically in perfect condition...

PS.: My Turbo Sport Avant had the same small Grilings. I havent heard about another, 'till, however.

I think you mean the small RS2 Break with 304mm diameter.
This one was changed by some Audi deales if the costumer was not pleased
with the performance of the brakes.

Mario20v hat geschrieben: I think you mean the small RS2 Break with 304mm diameter.
This one was changed by some Audi deales if the costumer was not pleased
with the performance of the brakes.

OK ...but what did they repalce the 304 with?

See the picture below:

I don´t know how they changed it,
they assembled 314 or 323mm rotors,
i am not sure.
Maybee they took other frictions rings and other calipers

No, I didn't. I had the small standard Girlings on my 1989 MC Fronti Turbo with Chip.
Not so funny

The G60 really is really ok, but could be much better. Fading is your friend

turbaxel hat geschrieben:

No, I didn't. I had the small standard Girlings on my 1989 MC Fronti Turbo with Chip.
Not so funny

The G60 really is really ok, but could be much better. Fading is your friend

Why is then the small RS2 Breake not enough ?

Hi Paul,
nice idea,

Just a little late for me.
I have updated my 276er Brake with 312 er from Passat, and Calippers from Audi A6 .
Fit plug´n´play and works great.
Best of it: my Original 7,5 x 15 Gullydeckel fits - with 20mm "spurplatten" (english??) ....

JörgFl hat geschrieben:Hi Paul,
nice idea,

Just a little late for me.
I have updated my 276er Brake with 312 er from Passat, and Calippers from Audi A6 .
Fit plug´n´play and works great.
Best of it: my Original 7,5 x 15 Gullydeckel fits - with 20mm "spurplatten" (english??) ....

Spacers f.e.

Hi,

translation follows:

7,5 x 15 Gullydeckel ....= the original Audi Alum. wheels
spurplatten ..............= wheel spacers for creating an additional offset for the wheels

Hi

Kann das mal jemand grob verdeutschen

Ich versteh zwar ein bisschen Englisch... aber ich weiß nicht.. bei Technik / Bremsen wärs mir in deutsch doch lieber...

Frank

Übersetzung, sinngemäß:

Paul hat die letzten 1,5 Jahre an Bremsenverbesserungen für 44er und C4er getüftelt. Damit ist er gerade fertig und das besteht aus einer neu gestalteten Bremszange HP2 (S4, S6, S6plus), so dass diese in 44er passt.

Er hat eine HP2 Bremszange entworfen, die direkt auf das Federbein der 44er passt (oder auch 80er und 90er).

Beim ersten Design hat er 314er Scheiben vom S4 benutzt, die späteren haben 323er Scheiben, wie im Bild zu sehen.

Er macht hier keine Scherze - Leute die seine hinteren Zangen kennen, wissen was er kann - lasst ihn also nicht hängen (meine Ergänzung).

Details:
-HP2 Zange vom S6plus
- 323mm Scheibe (basierend auf dem Audi Allroad)
- keine Modifikation am Dom nötig
- Mindestradgrösse 16 Zoll
- keine Bremsleitungswechsel nötig - er hat das extra gecheckt.
- Mindestens 5-10mm Spurplatten, je nach Felge nötig - er benutzt 16" BBS mit 10mm Spurplatten

Preis für einen Umrüstsatz 300-400 Euro, er arbeitet die Details noch aus.





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http://www.custom-auto-craft.com/
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Paul - a few questions to clear any misunderstandings on my side:
Did you rework existing HP2 calipers or did you design a new HP2 caliper ? I don't have any experience with TÜV on that matter, but it might be easier if these are original ones, fiddled with. OTOH it might be enough if they LOOK like originals (part numbers ?) .

Do you think they'd give me a good improvement on the HP2s on my S6, just because of more massive rotors ? I am really disappointed with warping which occurs when braking from 250 to 150. I want to swap the brakes anyway in the next year - but should I stay with the original parts because they are good enough in new condition or change to your solution (if it fits) ?

overboost7667 hat geschrieben:Paul - a few questions to clear any misunderstandings on my side:
Did you rework existing HP2 calipers or did you design a new HP2 caliper ? I don't have any experience with TÜV on that matter, but it might be easier if these are original ones, fiddled with. OTOH it might be enough if they LOOK like originals (part numbers ?) .

Do you think they'd give me a good improvement on the HP2s on my S6, just because of more massive rotors ? I am really disappointed with warping which occurs when braking from 250 to 150. I want to swap the brakes anyway in the next year - but should I stay with the original parts because they are good enough in new condition or change to your solution (if it fits) ?

THese are NEW ...redesigned to fit the type44 cars for example...not reworked.
One thing is for sure there is no way for any tuv to find out the difference between these and the original.
On the other hand..if you had to "fiddle" should not the TUV question it more? If not I would question the TUV!

If you currently already have HP2's on your car...S6 then I do not see why to use these...they are HP2...so I would think you gain nothing.
Interesting what you mention about warping however...I did quite a few runs....OK OK ...not at 250!!!! But some at around 180 for example going down to 50 or 30 ...I had no warping....
Are your disks original from Audi or Aftermarket?

The center hole distance fits for the 100/200 Suspension Strut with out the UFO Strut?

Mario20v hat geschrieben:The center hole distance fits for the 100/200 Suspension Strut with out the UFO Strut?

Mario,
Yes this is what i said....It is a drop in replacement for the G60 or G54 calipers on the Audi 100 or 200 models.

This means (once again) you do not change your complete strut....ONLY the brake caliper and the disk...with brake pads.

Thanks!

That's a really great offer! Thank you for your continued efforts in bringing improvements to "our" cars!
A few notes, though:
- no certification (Directive 2007/46/EC STU component certification, "ABE" in German) will SEVERELY limit marketability in Germany (and Switzerland, and Austria - or any country with inspection standards comparable to Germany's, for that matter. IME, only a small number of enthusiasts would be willing to risk their cars' street-legal status for a brake upgrade. And individual certification like it's currently done with your exhaust systems will not work with brakes without proper paperwork - can you supply that? And when you believe that the TUV will not notice, you're mistaken - 323mm discs and corresponding calipers are HUGE and will draw attention: even the dumbest TÜV guy will immediately notice that this kind of brake cannot be original. I could see a lot of potential for these in North America, though, where the percentage of turbo cars is higher than in Europe and certification as well as inspection requirements a lot laxer. I've seen V8s passing state inspections in TX with incredibly improvised homemade UFO replacement setups that would get your car impounded in Germany.

- target audience is off: Demand for inexpensive, plug 'n play brake upgrades is highest for UFO-equipped cars. V8 and 20V owners would be a lot more enthusiastic about this than 10V owners who already have an inexpensive upgrade path with the G60 brake (all original parts, no problems with the TÜV, cheaply available).
And, frankly, the only group of Type44 (or Type 89) owners who would really *NEED* to upgrade their brakes beyond the performance the G60 can give, are those who have boosted their turbo engines to beyond 220 or so hp. And that's a rather small fraction out of the overall pool. You could, however, surely make inroads in the S2 upgrade market with this, as the stock brakes are overwhelmed when engine mods go beyond mere chipping and existing upgrades are very expensive.

- Especially on regular, non-sport 5000/100/200 with the flat, covered rear wheel wells, the required large wheel/tire combos will cause clearance issues. The OEM 8*16" BBS Audi wheel won't fit on regular models for example, even without spacers.

BTW, the RS2 had Porsche-sourced 304X32 or 322X32 discs (made by Brembo). The 304s are more than adequate for everything short of racetrack use.

Bottom Line: keep it so stock wheels can be retained and put more emphasis on having an offer for the UFO cars. And certify the kits. Even when this adds EUR 100 or 150 to the price.

I'll repost your announcement to the US forum, let's see what'll come out of it!



regards,
Bastian

hier die übersetzung:

HELLO jeder!
Ich schreibe in der englischen Forum da als einige der Sie Mein Deutsch wissen nicht, dass Präfekt ist... so haben Sie bitte Geduld mit mir auf, dass ein.

OK bin ich hier etwas, in den letzten 1,5 Jahren bekannt zu geben ich mehrere Bremse Verbesserungen Projekte für die Audi-typ44 und C4-Autos gearbeitet habeneines der Projekte, die ich gerade beendet (neue hinteren Quattro Bremssätteln), und jetzt haben wir etwas noch interessanter.

Ich war nun ein Projekt, das die besteht aus einer Bremse-dimensionales Abtastgerät (HP2) oder das gleiche YES abschließen, die auf der S4 oder S6 plus in diesem Fall aber Nddesigned verwendet und an die Typ 44 Autos... angepasst gebaut!! Bitte lesen Sie diese alle sehr sorgfältig... und das Bild unten anschauen.

Was ich getan habe, wird eine HP2-dimensionales Abtastgerät das direkt über die Aussetzung Federbein für die type44 Autos... auch einige andere Autos wie Audi 80 und 90 passt erstellt.. ...aber trotzdem, wir bleiben mit dem Thema hier.

Auf dem ursprünglichen Design, die ich einen Datenträger 314 mm von der S4 verwendet.. ...die neuesten ein verwendet eine massive 323 mm Festplatte... was Sie im Bild sehen.

Bitte Menschen.. .every Mal, wenn ich buchen ich denke, es gibt Menschen, denke ich Witze oder etwas... mache, diejenigen, die wissen, was kann ich tun... Dies ist nicht Scherzprogramme... die hinteren-dimensionales Abtastgerät ich erst kürzlich getan habe .know sollte gut genug ist, zu beweisen, was ich tue.
Also bitte keine silly Witze, dazu muss ich wissen, bevor ich hingehe und euch Alot von Geld, die diese Dinge zu machen, wenn es Menschen interessiert etwas draußen sind verbringen?

Details:
-HP2-dimensionales Abtastgerät aus S6 plus:
-323 mm Bremse Datenträger (speziell für typ44-Autos, die basierend auf der Audi Allroad)
-keine Änderungen erforderlich, um die Federbein-Turm
-mindestens 16 "Räder verwendet werden müssen!
-keine Schläuche... ändern müssen, und Ja natürlich ich überprüft dies.
-Sie müssen mindestens eine 5-10 mm Rad Spacer an den Rädern... hängt von den Rädern, die Sie haben
auf die Autos, habe verwende ich Audi 16 "BBS mit einer Abstandshalter 10 mm jeder Seite.

Preis für solche ein Kit rund 300-400 Euro ist... ich bin immer noch auf die Details für diese arbeiten.

Bitte geben Sie mich einige Leute Feedback.

Hello everyone,
OK I have some news concerning the HP2 brake calipers.

I have now successfully built several sets and ready for sale.

My only problem and this is why I am a little delayed ..I am having problems getting the disks and the brake pads from several suppliers.

As far as I can tell there is a delay for the whole project at least until around March.
The reason once again is the delay to get the disks and brake pads for these kits.

What I can do is for those that have little patience or want to get this rolling ...I can offer the brake calipers already as of today...but you will have source (buy / purchase) the brake disks and brake pads yourself...either from Audi or thru EBAY for example.
I can provide the part numbers which are need for these parts.

Just for information: NO, you cannot get the brake calipers from anywhere else in the world...these are unique and "SPECIFIC" for the Audi 100 or 200 with 5 hole wheels.

In case everyone is wondering...what does the brake calipers costs..140,30 euro for each caliper...I have tried to make these as costs affordable as I could...this may seem like a really cheap price...maybe......for those which complain the price is too cheap...I can offer you a price of 510 Euro (Audi's price) for each caliper...if this helps your conscious a little more.

Please if you would like one of these then please contact me thru my regular e-mail: cpfern@pt.lu

PS...do not forget the complete set will most likely only be ready around March.

Hat die Bremen mitlerweile jemand verbaut?

Ich habe grosses interesse dran wenn das Kit für den C4 fertig ist...
Mir gehen die Ufo's nämlich furchtbar auf'n Sack...

Gruss

RST

hallo,
Ja, ich habe auf meinem Auto gebaut ... das Bild das ich beigefügt habe war von meinem 100 Sport quattro (MC).
Diese lief ca. 1 Jahr mit den Bremsen drauf.

RST2300 hat geschrieben:Hat die Bremen mitlerweile jemand verbaut?

Ich habe grosses interesse dran wenn das Kit für den C4 fertig ist...
Mir gehen die Ufo's nämlich furchtbar auf'n Sack...

Gruss

RST

Dann fehlt nur noch dass sie lieferbar ist für den C4